A friend from Queensland sent me this. I'm not at this moment a climate change supporter but am willing to listen, however this makes an interesting read if you've the time.
"Les Crowe
November 19, 2019
I am writing this because I am appalled at the amount of near hysterical reaction to
the recent NSW and Qld bush-fires. My reasoning is not so much about the fires or
the people effected, but about whether “man made” climate change is the
underlying cause. Before I go further, my stance is not so much a personal but
rather a professional reaction.
I begin by telling those of you who don’t know, for a period of some 40 years, my
work as a loss adjuster was involved with natural disasters, ranging from Cyclone
Tracey through to a lesser involvement in 2009. I was appointed as National Chief
Loss Adjuster, an advisory role, to the Insurance Council of Australia on all natural
disasters but particularly bush-fires. This role was interactive with all agencies and
spanned more than 10 years. It was both proactive in planning stages and reactive
after the event. I was heavily involved in the 1983 Victorian fires.
I acknowledge the advice of The Bureau of Meteorology and the Climate Council, is a reality to the effect the projected changes to climate, was derived from modelling, which strongly suggested change would occur unless man made contribution was reduced,.
Somehow or other, sections of our communities, have taken control of the scientific argument about the future and have interpreted it to mean the change has already occurred. Not so. Records I have seen, actually show that the slight upward trend in temperatures on a global scale seem to be in direct line with the earth’s ever occurring”natural” climatic change patterns. History shows numerous ice ages, when the planet cooled, to corresponding heating up periods, over billions of years. This has always occurred. It is the nature of our planet and cannot be influenced by what man can or cannot do. On the other hand, the impact of humans is a future projection, well founded on scientific modelling.
The true position, despite all the comments about what the current fires mean in a
climate change scenario, is nobody can tell if there is any connection.
What I can tell you with absolute certainty is that these fires , as bad as they were,
are no more intense, widespread, dangerous or unexpected in outcome, to many
previous and historic events . There is no accurate method to measure such
outcomes. However, it is possible to look at prevailing conditions and contributing factors to seek patterns or influential factors.
Take a look at the following comparative data, much of which has been ignored by
the frantic argument to directly link man made climate change to the outbreak and
effects of these latest fires. I detail some of the arguments I have heard go
unchallenged or are simply ignored and unreported, particularly by the ABC who
are the appointed official national disaster communications service.
This the first time such fires have been rated as catastrophic.. True, but not
because they were rated any worse than many previous fires. In 2009, following the bush-fire inquiry, the defined categories of fire were renamed. Catastrophic
was introduced as the most severe warning. So this description was never
intended to make people think they were the worst fires ever. I have heard many
media reports entrench this mistake
The fires are occurring earlier because of climate extending the summer risk.
Can only be applicable in the North. However, NSW has a long history of
November and December bush-fires. In 1944, the Blue Mountains lost 27 homes
and other property in November. Since then, I can recall at least 3 other similarly
timed events in NSW. So this year was not unique, as has been strongly inferred by
many reporters. In southern areas, January and February have historically been
prone to outbreaks.
These fires are the most widespread and worst ever. They certainly were
disastrous. However, it is impossible to compare unless it can be based on raw
data…. Have more lives been lost than ever before. No, although 1 is far too many,
in 2009, 173 people died. In 1983, 75 people died. In 1962, 62 people died. In
that decade one of the victims in Eltham North was George Crowe, my Grandfather
and Grandma’s father in law. In 1967, it was reported that 2,600 square
kms of land was devastated in just 5 hours (Just try to imagine that ferocity).
In 2009 there were 2030 homes destroyed and in 1983 there were 6,000 homes
and other buildings destroyed.. Does this define which fire was the worst. NO.
All fires are bad but to try and claim the current fires are the worst ever is a blatant
disregard for historical fact. Worse still, it is a deliberate attempt to scare people
into accepting the fanatical side of the global warming argument, by accepting
radical changes to our economy, power generation and mining {let alone agriculture
and transport} must occur right now and in a premature manner. The so called re-definition of the predicted changes into an emergency, is a way to virtually destroy our entire way of life.
The fires were started as a result of climate changed conditions. Clearly wrong.
80% of fires were started by people either deliberately or accidentally lighting them.
Dry lightning strikes have been long recorded and are nothing new.
What has our Media and ABC generally ignored. One of the most clear data
based facts, reported out of the 2009 Inquiry, was the finding that fire intensity is
proportional to and severely aggravated by fire loads created by undergrowth and
forest floor debris accumulation. We can’t control wind and heat but we can
control fuel load. Ask any active Rural or Country serving fireman what they think of this hazard. Then ask your Green Party representative, why they have influenced
the management of National Park maintenance, as well as local government reserves, to leave far too much of the forest floor intact at any cost. Winter back burning,
firewood removal and general debris clearance has been widely restricted by stupid
laws. They argue it preserves natural ecosystems that rely on such decaying
material. Well, systematic removal of this fuel load may well disrupt some
Eco-systems, consider this;. A bush-fire positively destroys them all.
The only identifiable and recently introduced risk factor, is the environmental law
changes that have impacted a fire’s intensity potential and capacity to burn faster and hotter.
Find this hard to believe, Go into a forest and try setting fire to a living gum tree
with a match. Now stoop down and see if you get any better results from the dead
and therefore dry undergrowth at your feet. This is the effect ember spread has
on adjoining bush-land.
There is much more to say about bringing sanity back into discussions and I have my own opinion that if you believe the science of global warming, stick to the science and ignore the fanatical self professed experts, like some of the current crop of Green Party politicians and shrieking media, self appointed, experts. No, before it can be said. I was not self appointed in my former career positions.
I can only reflect that the handful of ex-firemen who were paraded before the media, may have had other agendas. The spokesman listed his current occupation as a “Climate Change Consultant”. Another said outright, on camera, that fires have always been linked to climate change. I prefer to listen to our Indigenous community who talk of bush-fire management over thousands of years. - oops before any hint of an industrial age, meat production or mining."
Interesting or crap?
"I was cut out to be a genius. Unfortunately somebody forgot to put the pieces together"
Tubby Clayton - Toc H founder
The furnaces of the world are now burning about 2,000,000,000 tons of coal a year. When this is burned uniting with oxygen, it adds a 7,000,000,000 tons of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere yearly. This tends to make the air a more effective blanket for the earth and to raise its temperature. The effect may be considerable in the next few centuries.
This is from a New Zealand newspaper article printed in 1912
2019 was the hottest year ever recorded......2020 will show the trend to continue. Deny away..
BMW F800S…….
There is no words to adequately describe the batshit crazies....
I'm still waiting for the Antarctic and Iceland to melt enough to put some coastal golf courses awash and see who cries about it.
As far as the new norm goes, records haven't been kept long enough or accurately enough to know what is extraordinary or simply cyclical.
That would be untrue as Ancient snow pack core samples provide huge amount of data on many thousand of years of climate.
A good experiment at home would be to run you car in a closed garage and see if you continue to breath after a few hours. We live in a closed environment with a very thin atmosphere layer. After living for fifty or sixty years, It does not take rocket science to see Man is changing the biosphere.
BMW F800S…….
There is no words to adequately describe the batshit crazies....
...I can only reflect that the handful of ex-firemen who were paraded before the media, may have had other agendas. The spokesman listed his current occupation as a “Climate Change Consultant”. Another said outright, on camera, that fires have always been linked to climate change. I prefer to listen to our Indigenous community who talk of bush-fire management over thousands of years. - oops before any hint of an industrial age, meat production or mining."
Interesting or crap?
Climate change is an interesting topic. I personally believe in climate change. I don't have the hubris though to even suggest that man has anything to do with it.
The climate has always changed. There's a great documentary from the History Channel called Little Ice Age: Big Chill.
It's interesting and fascinating to watch. I watched it over and over. My brother from Alaska visited and I showed it to him. He stayed up till the wee hours of the morning also watching it over and over. One of the things brought up at the conclusion was that the climate has always changed. The US Military has developed plans for just how to deal with an event like what caused this mini-Ice Age. It happened before...and will happen again. We make the mistake of thinking that since the climate in Seattle (and your cities) has always been mild and wet, that it will always be. We'll be screwed here if the temperature changes just slightly. If we don't get a good snow pack, we won't have water in the reservoirs through the summer...and that's where our drinking water comes from. But it has always rained in Seattle and the Cascade mountains have always had snow...right? And so let's build a city with a million people in the area who depend on nothing ever changing.
This picture was taken near the visitor center at the Althabasca Glacier in B.C. Note the two text passages outlined in red. In the first, a real fact is there. The glacier has receded, advanced and receded again over the past 10,000 years. I guess you'd call that "climate change". Then note the bad logic the creator of the sign takes in the next paragraph. This is caused by excessive greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. Hmm...who is contributing to greenhouse gases? Oh! It's man with his coal burning power plants and cars (and BMW motorcycles!).
But I don't see what man had to do with the glacier receding, advancing and receding again over the past 10,000 years. We weren't around back then. And certainly our polluting BMW motorcycles weren't. But we are being blamed for it now.
One event I think of regarding climate change is over in Eastern Washington. It's called "Dry Falls". Here's a description from Wikipedia.
Dry Falls is a 3.5-mile-long (5,600 m), 5.5 km in width, scalloped precipice with four major alcoves, in central Washington scablands. This cataract complex is on the opposite side of the Upper Grand Coulee from the Columbia River, and at the head of the Lower Grand Coulee, northern end of Lenore Canyon.[1] According to the current geological model, catastrophic flooding channeled water at 65 miles per hour through the Upper Grand Coulee and over this 400-foot (120 m) rock face at the end of the last ice age. It is estimated that the falls were five times the width of Niagara,[2]:116 with ten times the flow of all the current rivers in the world combined.[
Think of that. Water flooding over the falls at 65 mph and with 10 times the flow of all the current rivers in the world combined. I just stood there trying to take it all in...and I couldn't. My mind could not imagine the immensity of all that water flooding over the edge like that. It would be like standing on the edge of the ocean and watching it flooding over.
Which brings me back to the hubris of men that they think they can cause anything like what the world has proven it can do all on its own. You're going to try stopping that? Well, the rocks downriver couldn't.
Did you know the north magnetic pole is shifting? It's enough that the GPS units planes use have had to be adjusted. Do any of us think we can stop that from happening? Or cause it?
I do believe the fires in Australia were caused by man...just not by man-made climate change. They were caused in large part by man-made arson.
A teenage volunteer firefighter is among two dozen people accused of lighting some of the historic fires that have raged across Australia since September.This fire season, police have taken legal action – ranging from cautions to charges –against almost 200 people in New South Wales alone. That includes 24 people charged with deliberately lighting bushfires, 53 accused of failing to comply with the fire ban and 47 accused of discarding a lit cigarette or match.
But like oxytotl wrote, there's an agenda in play here to turn around what may have been made far worse by arson, into climate change as the cause. The forests and bush were dry yes...but the fires were started in many cases by people.
With all that said, I want to caution all of us to consider others. I was in Kenya last October on a mission trip. There are lots of people there who don't have enough food to eat because they aren't getting the rains when they need them. We had a lady who traveled with us who's heart was being broken by the suffering she's seeing there. She thinks it is all because of "climate change" because that's what she's heard. I quickly realized that it was pretty callous and unloving to tell her that the climate changes and we either adapt, or suffer.
There are probably thousands of people in Australia affected by the fires. I think we need to be cautious of their feelings too.
Sometimes, it is better to not "win" the argument for the sake of others.
Chris
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
Thank you all and especially Chris with very readable and interesting replies to this very emotive subject and this is exactly whats required.
I'm mainly a climate peaks and troughs person as we've had hot and cold periods through out time. However, I do recognise that man doesn't help with his pollution as we've seen in the past when volcanic action has cast a thin cloud of ash over the globe thereby changing the worlds climate for a number of years until the ash disperses.
In years to come, I wonder if "carbon credits" and the like will be looked at as a neccessity or just a money making scam............... watch this space
"I was cut out to be a genius. Unfortunately somebody forgot to put the pieces together"
Tubby Clayton - Toc H founder
The story about people lighting some of the fires...There are several cases of arson, intended and unintended, in the US too. One Forest Service lady was burning a note form her ex-husband and it caused a big fire and a very large fire in Arizona was caused by a native American firefighter who wanted overtime.
But to deny that man has no responsibility for at least some pollution need to go to China and a few other places with over crowded cities and breathe deep. Try to not cough.
I grew up near Los Angeles and remember the smog then. One could not see clearly at the distance of a few blocks. But with a few regulations in place cars stopped spewing as much exhaust and industry was made to reduce emissions and now one can see many tens of miles without trouble on most days.
A friend from Queensland sent me this. I'm not at this moment a climate change supporter but am willing to listen, however this makes an interesting read if you've the time.
"Les Crowe
November 19, 2019
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Interesting or crap?
Please,
This is not a forum for political views, there are plenty of them around.
Stick to F800 riders news and views.
Please,
This is not a forum for political views, there are plenty of them around.
Stick to F800 riders news and views.
msquared
I totally understand, Mark. I purposely moved the thread over to this section where as WildWilly wrote, all subjects are okay to discuss. My hope though, is that people stay civil and conscious of other's feelings.
It won't make me feel any better to either believe in climate change, or not believe in it, when I look outside at my normally green lawn with trees dangerously laden with snow and more coming with high winds. The thought of spending the night (and perhaps next several days) without power, doesn't make me feel great.
Chris
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
I totally understand, Mark. I purposely moved the thread over to this section where as WildWilly wrote, all subjects are okay to discuss. My hope though, is that people stay civil and conscious of other's feelings.
It won't make me feel any better to either believe in climate change, or not believe in it, when I look outside at my normally green lawn with trees dangerously laden with snow and more coming with high winds. The thought of spending the night (and perhaps next several days) without power, doesn't make me feel great.
Chris
Totally agree Chris. All the respondents to this thread agreed to disagree. I'm proud to be part of a group where discussions llike this are civil and respectful. I take exception when someone tells me what views I have to stick to.
2013 F800GT Graphite Metallic-Gone to a new home
Not a 2nd childhood, still in the 1st
Mark is new to the forum, so a little grace and mercy is in order.
<chuckle>"I take exception when someone tells me"...anything. I sometimes wonder how I managed to stay in the USAF for 26 years, since I don't like being told what to do, or what to think. Somehow I managed to stick around without being court-martialed.
Chris
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
I have a colleague who does't believe global warming is due to humans. But he agrees that ~98% of scientists claim global warming is cause by humans. However, he claims the academic pressure is so strong to show climate change is due to humans that the scientists make these claims so they don't get fired or lose tenure.
The "logic" we use to keep believing what we want to believe. It's the 2% of scientists who are getting 50% media coverage. Speaking of media, Rupert Murdoch owns close to two thirds of the media in Australia. Murdoch does not believe in man made climate change. His papers push that viewpoint heavily.
I have a colleague who does't believe global warming is due to humans. But he agrees that ~98% of scientists claim global warming is cause by humans. However, he claims the academic pressure is so strong to show climate change is due to humans that the scientists make these claims so they don't get fired or lose tenure.
The "logic" we use to keep believing what we want to believe. It's the 2% of scientists who are getting 50% media coverage. Speaking of media, Rupert Murdoch owns close to two thirds of the media in Australia. Murdoch does not believe in man made climate change. His papers push that viewpoint heavily.
BMW F800S…….
There is no words to adequately describe the batshit crazies....
Please,
This is not a forum for political views, there are plenty of them around.
Stick to F800 riders news and views.
msquared
You're a Newbie 'msquared' and as my illustrious colleagues have pointed out this is the general discussion section.
In no way was it my intention to ram my views down your throat. This article was written by the National Chief Loss Adjuster for the Insurance Council of Australia which I found an 'interesting read' regarding climate change and thought it was worth an airing on our global forum. From being on this Forum (particularly this section) for a number of years I have seen many free thinking posts where very few topics are off the agenda. The members who respond to these sort of posts are usually senior citizens and are able to make their own minds up to the validatey of a post - and long may it continue!
This is a very friendly Forum where we take other members views very seriously, but we also enjoy the banter and there is never any intension to insult.
"I was cut out to be a genius. Unfortunately somebody forgot to put the pieces together"
Tubby Clayton - Toc H founder
You're a Newbie 'msquared' and as my illustrious colleagues have pointed out this is the general discussion section.
In no way was it my intention to ram my views down your throat. This article was written by the National Chief Loss Adjuster for the Insurance Council of Australia which I found an 'interesting read' regarding climate change and thought it was worth an airing on our global forum. From being on this Forum (particularly this section) for a number of years I have seen many free thinking posts where very few topics are off the agenda. The members who respond to these sort of posts are usually senior citizens and are able to make their own minds up to the validatey of a post - and long may it continue!
This is a very friendly Forum where we take other members views very seriously, but we also enjoy the banter and there is never any intension to insult.
Senior citizens? When did that happen?
2013 F800GT Graphite Metallic-Gone to a new home
Not a 2nd childhood, still in the 1st
If you look at my post #6, you'll find a link to the History Channel's documentary about the Mini Ice Age. It goes right along with what they are saying in this article.
I'm glad I own a Subaru Outback with All Wheel Drive.
Chris
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
And I'll bet it'll get hot again after being cold.
We used to joke that the roads in England were designed the way they were (curvy and twisty) because the workers kept their backs to the wind. The wind constantly changes, so the road direction changed.
Chris
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
And I'll bet it'll get hot again after being cold.
We used to joke that the roads in England were designed the way they were (curvy and twisty) because the workers kept their backs to the wind. The wind constantly changes, so the road direction changed.
Chris
Thats an excellent thought Chris. I've often wondered why the roads weren't a bit straighter. The Romans could do it so why not in modern times. I suspect land ownership was the issue.
The Express article paints a bit of a grim picture as we do know in the 17/18th centry the River Thames froze over so there's no reason at this point in time to say it's right or wrong. In the next 30yrs it'll be proved one way or the other.
"I was cut out to be a genius. Unfortunately somebody forgot to put the pieces together"
Tubby Clayton - Toc H founder
Yeah, we all knew that land ownership boundaries were the reason for the roads being such as they were, but got a good chuckle out of the joke. What wasn't efficient for cars getting around, is excellent for motorcycles. I envy the members who are over there.
The video documentary that I linked to covered some amazing things. Amazing to me, at least.
The wood for Stradivarius violins came from a particular stand of trees hard hit by the cold. They grew very little year by year and the wood grain is more dense than normal.
As Napoleon's army retreated from Russia, the solders were starving and would take their knives and cut strips of meat off the horse's as they pulled the wagons. The horses didn't feel the cutting because of the cold and the wounds cauterized immediately from the cold.
Mary Shelley and some of her friends used to get together in a mansion in Germany each summer. That was the summer it snowed in July. It was cold enough that they stayed inside and she wrote Frankenstein.
The Plague was helped along by the cold. People huddled together in buildings for warmth. The rats came in too to be warm...and the fleas carrying the plague came in with them.
We had a similar situation to the Thames river freezing over. The picture of Washington crossing the Delaware shows ice floes around the boat. That's the way it was then. When's the last time you've seen that happen?
The westward movement in the USA was spurned on initially by people moving west and hoping for warmer climates.
There's far more in the documentary. I'm not sure I'd say it was a "grim" picture. Well, except that we'll need studs in our motorcycle tires and better heated gear. If you like winter sports, it'll be great. Things like cross-country skiing from your front doorstep.
Now which snow tires should I buy for my Subaru Outback? Michelin X-Ice or Bridgestone Blizzaks?
Chris
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
Grim means cold Chris, being slightly susceptible to Raynauds Syndrome, I try to avoid the cold.
An interesting fact about the minor roads around the Romney Marsh they generally twisty and turny - I wouldn't say they're good for motorcycling as there'd be the odd very sharp corner and switch-back. In the 17th and 18th century smugglers used the quirkyness of these roads to confuse the Preventive Officers (Customs) at night so if they saw the smugglers lights they couldn't tell in which direction they were going.
I know you're going to look up Romney Marsh Chris - I would!
"I was cut out to be a genius. Unfortunately somebody forgot to put the pieces together"
Tubby Clayton - Toc H founder
One of my favorite shows growing up was The Scarecrow of Romney Marsh. Loved it!
Chris
That would have been "Dr. Syn" of Dymchurch Chris. I was enthralled in the story of the Ransley Gang of smugglers from Aldington. In the late 50s my brother was an apprentice on a farm there and in the barn of his lodgings there were carved inscriptions on the timbers from about the 17-1800s as one was dated 1742? the precise date I cant recall. I was facinated. You seem to have a great affinity with the "old country", there's so much history isn't there.
"I was cut out to be a genius. Unfortunately somebody forgot to put the pieces together"
Tubby Clayton - Toc H founder
Sorry, just realised, I've gone way off topic........ oops! Smacked hand!
What was the topic again? Something to do with Woolly Mammoth farts causing climate change and ending the last ice age, perhaps?
Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.
I read stuff like that and chuckle and shrug. I'm not sure who to believe. Some say the world is coming to an end. Others point to where the data was manipulated to show the warming.
When some climate "scientists" went to Antarctica to prove Global Warming, they had to be rescued in an international effort. Their ship was stuck in the ice.
Not concerned at all. As they say, "follow the money". Both Obama and Gore have recently bought multi-million dollar ocean front properties. If they act like it isn't going to happen, why should I be concerned?
Chris
Last edited by Roadpizza; 02-14-20 at 06:20 PM.
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
Because as a professed Christian, you are to protect the world loaned to you. Genesis 2:15
And this is not a baseball with opposing teams.
Originally Posted by Daboo
Not concerned at all. As they say, "follow the money". Both Obama and Gore have recently bought multi-million dollar ocean front properties. If they act like it isn't going to happen, why should I be concerned?
Chris
BMW F800S…….
There is no words to adequately describe the batshit crazies....
...And this is not a baseball with opposing teams.
Agreed. Perhaps this sums up my feelings pretty well.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference.
I see people whipped into a frenzy over this subject. I refuse to be that way. I see the people making money off promoting climate change hysteria, living their lives worse by far than 90% of the people they want to change.
We ban plastic straws in San Francisco, when most of the plastic in the ocean comes from Asia and Africa. Look at the 10 rivers polluting the world the most and they come from China, India and Africa. But we'll condemn you for using a plastic straw in a restaurant...and do nothing about the real source of the ocean's pollution. The assumption is that we...the USA...are the bad boys. When really, we're not.
I see climate change and Global Warming predictions on how the world will end...and when the predicted dates come, no one says anything. They just make another prediction about how the world will end. Temperatures are supposedly rising at calamitous levels...and then there are reports of how the data was manipulated to support the results desired of climate change and global warming. In one case in Canada, after the climate change scientists manipulated the data, they destroyed the original data so no one could prove them wrong.
And then I ride my motorcycle over to Eastern Washington and look out over Dry Falls. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_Falls Your mind cannot conceive of what it looked like before. Seriously. From the Wikipedia article I linked to, it carried "ten times the flow of all the current rivers in the world combined". Let that sink in. That is climate change. Riding your F800S pollutes the environment...but not riding it would do nothing to have stopped that water. And it happened long before man was around. So what caused it? Thousands of feet of ice melted and changed the landscape forever. I'll guarantee you that it wasn't caused by your F800S riding on the backroads of California.
So the words of that Serenity Prayer are pretty meaningful to me. Besides, as you mentioned, as a professed Christian, I'm far more interested in where the souls on this earth will go.
Chris
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
But, you can change it. That is why you have brain. Sucking up to the petrol-chemical industry and being addicted to it is not protecting the future for those that follow. It is doing business with the money changers.
Being concerned about death is not our purpose but, to be concerned about the living and the future is. Otherwise, it is nothing more than a death cult. Making excuses to be self comforting while destroying the future by using religion is the ultimate hypocrisy.
BMW F800S…….
There is no words to adequately describe the batshit crazies....
: the state or fact of being ignorant: lack of knowledge, education, or awareness If I were full of pride I wouldn't care about world after I was gone, nor what happened to the young people that followed me.
Ignorance is bliss......
Straw manFallacy -
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.
BMW F800S…….
There is no words to adequately describe the batshit crazies....
Ahh...excuse me while I plot out the route I'm taking from Seattle to Death Valley in April. I need to be intelligent about this and pick the route that will be scenic, but ice free so I won't be spraying myself and my GT about the road by hitting a patch of ice that was skipped in the Global Warming.
That, I can change and have an influence on.
Chris
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
Now, now lads, decorum! I posted this thread out of my interest in the hysteria that I percieve is being wound up. I'm a peaks and troughs man, warm, cold, its been proved to happen over the eons. I'm not saying that man hasn't made an impact but in the relative short time scale we're looking at I think we need to just keep an eye on it. Yes by all means reduce carbon emissions and whatever but the hysteria being whipped up is turning our kids into eco-warriors, they all want us meat eaters to turn veggie as there's too many farting cows!! My arse!!
A discussion is fine - an arguement means both sides have fixed ideas which are unlikely to be moved.
"I was cut out to be a genius. Unfortunately somebody forgot to put the pieces together"
Tubby Clayton - Toc H founder
The city that I live in is very concerned about sea level rise. According the newspaper the prediction by bureaucrats is that it will rise 3 feet within 10 years. But right now all they can think of is to pass a homeowner's bond issue to fund building walls to keep the ocean out of shore or bay front properties. I might add that we are already paying a special tax to accomplish the same thing, but the people with this plan seem to have forgotten about that and I have never seen any documentation regarding what the tax has been used to actually fund so far. It just seems to have disappeared into the government coffers.
Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.
Now, now lads, decorum! I posted this thread out of my interest in the hysteria that I percieve is being wound up. I'm a peaks and troughs man, warm, cold, its been proved to happen over the eons. I'm not saying that man hasn't made an impact but in the relative short time scale we're looking at I think we need to just keep an eye on it. Yes by all means reduce carbon emissions and whatever but the hysteria being whipped up is turning our kids into eco-warriors, they all want us meat eaters to turn veggie as there's too many farting cows!! My arse!!
A discussion is fine - an arguement means both sides have fixed ideas which are unlikely to be moved.
BMW F800S…….
There is no words to adequately describe the batshit crazies....
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Originally Posted by oxytotl
I sometimes wonder how I managed to stay in the USAF for 26 years, since I don't like being told what to do, or what to think. Somehow I managed to stick around without being court-martialed.
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