BMW Motorrad Navigation IV or Garmin Zumo 660 for 800 GS

[montanaman]

BMW Navi IV is a lot of $$$ . Plus another 200 plus to mount it. The Garmin Zumo 660 is about half as much and comes with a mount. Am I missing something here?? Is this just a BMW rip off system..??

[Tor]

Is this just a BMW rip off system..??

Yes.

Get you a regular Zumo 660, or even a 550 for even less.

[TAMPAJIM]

Or get a Nuvi 500 for $200 if you don't need the extra stuff. Same specs as the baby Zumo. Waterproof, shockproof, bright screen etc.

[Talon Six]

I had a Nav IV on my R1200R (RIP). In terms of functionality, it is essentially identical to the Zumo 660 with the exception of added BMW Dealership POIs on the Nav IV. The Nav IV cradle mounts very cleanly when used with the $100+ BMW GPS mount. The Nav IV also comes with the cable harness that attaches right into the accessory plug of the bike - again, a nice feature. Like the Zumo 660, the Nav IV has all the bells and whistles. The cradle is very nice, but the four buttons along the left edge of the cradle are totally redundant to on screen controls on the Nav IV.

So if you're not constrained by money, then the BMW Nav IV is probably the cleanest install.

Now having said all that, I currently have a Garmin Nuvi 1390T in a Ram Mount on my F650. I didn't use most of the features of the Nav IV, and the maps and basic navigation functionality if the 1390T (and virtually all Garmin automotive GPS') is the same as the 660. I don't ride in the rain unless I have to, I use an iPod for my music, and the last thing I want to do while I'm riding is yammer on my cell phone, so for me the Nav IV was complete overkill. For my current ride I opted for what was on sale knowing that I sacrificed all the neato stuff listed above, and haven't looked back once.

To power my 1390T, I bought the cable harness from max BMW ($22 "REPAIR PLUG, 3-PIN - NO 611656") and connected that to a 12v to mini USB converter from Mountguys.com. The installation is clean enough for my OCD tastes.

[AlanI]

Zumo 660 secured in Touratech lockable mount and located on Wunderlich cross bar. Zumo wired directly to battery BUT with quick release plugs attached. Much cheaper all told than the Nav IV.

[montanaman]

Wow ..thanks all for the feedback.. The BMW unit is going back. It is overkill and too big IMHO not to mention a grand all in. Question.. can one wire the Zumo ( or Nuvi ) directly to the battery with the cables they provide or do you need to buy that connector plug and go into the BMW provided Can bus socket? Does it matter? Also does anyone have a picture of the Zumo 660 mounted with the RAM mount they provide? I think I am headed in that direction

[TAMPAJIM]

For my Nuvi 500, i got a 18" cable from powerlet, plugged it into the onboard socket.
Careful about wiring directly to the battery, there is a voltage regulator inline on the car cable so you need same on any aftermarket cable.

[bobz]

+1 to Talon Six I bought a Garmin Novi 1490 factory reconditioned for $200. Large 5 inch screen that I can see and the touch controls work with gloves. The RAM mount works great. Evan got the Novi wet in the rain a couple of time, but I do put it in the tank bag for hard rain. I have no need to pay bigger bucks for a less readable unit

ps i put a BMW plug on the power wire and plug it into the socket

[AlanI]

Question.. can one wire the Zumo ( or Nuvi ) directly to the battery with the cables they provide or do you need to buy that connector plug and go into the BMW provided Can bus socket?

When I purchased my Zumo 660 (from Touratech as they had an offer on) I was advised that the device draws current from the battery even when not mounted to the bike. To be precise, it is the Garmin mount that draws continuous current not the device itself. This current draw is quite small but if the battery is not fully charged when parked, or is not in too good condition, the rider can return to find a flat battery. It is for this reason that the bunch of cabling that comes with the Zumo 660 does not have ring-eyes connected thereby discouraging the user from attaching it directly to the battery.

Solution: As I had no need for any of the cabling (line to ear fitted speakers etc.....I use Bluetooth) apart from the power cable, Touratech technicians butchered the original cable, stuck on eye-rings for battery connection to one end and quick release waterproof connectors to the other end to overcome the problem of current draw. When the bike is parked for a week or two or, like now, for several months over the winter, being able to break the cable is a useful feature and you can see this in one of the images I posted earlier in this thread.

Demand for this butchering of the cable became so high that Touratech decided to make up a small kit allowing you to achieve the same end but still retain the original Garmin supplied cabling should at some time in the future decide to sell/pass the unit one. You can see this kit for yourself here -http://www.touratech.com/shops/001/product_info.php?cPath=14_113_647&products_id=7547 &osCsid=a3987393d4ea7d5b2e34ee395de46fc5

[montanaman]

Or create an SAE connector from the garmin wires and plug directly into the battery tender wire. That way you can move easier and just remove it all if needed.. Someone at BMW suggested that...

[BrENDURO]

Moved thread to GPS forum.

[danham]

Wow ..thanks all for the feedback.. The BMW unit is going back. It is overkill and too big IMHO not to mention a grand all in. Question.. can one wire the Zumo ( or Nuvi ) directly to the battery with the cables they provide or do you need to buy that connector plug and go into the BMW provided Can bus socket? Does it matter? Also does anyone have a picture of the Zumo 660 mounted with the RAM mount they provide? I think I am headed in that direction

First, let's correct one common myth: the Zumo (and BMW version) have no special shock or vibration protection compared to the nuvi. They are both excellent navigators, and unlike the nuvis are waterproof, but the "guts" are nearly identical to the nuvis and do not include any shockproofing.

As for wiring, the nuvi mounts draw nothing when the GPS is out of the mount, so the advantage to wiring direct to battery (or through a fuse panel) is that the GPS will not shut off during fuel stops, which can be a royal PITA.

Here's my nuvi 760 with RAM mount:


-dan

[Pete O Static]

In my opinion, the cleanest and most idiot proof install is to wire it to the canbus. This provides several advantages. Fist of all, the cradle will only be powered when the canbus is powered. The canbus remains powered for 30 seconds after shutdown and when it does power down, the Zumo will ask if you wish to continue on its' internal battery. This is very handy for fuel stops. If you do not acknowledge the message, it will assume that you have shut off the bike and hopped off without turning off your GPS ( we have all done that! ) So, 30 seconds later, it shuts it off for you and isolates the GPS from the bike's system thereby protecting the bike's battery. The SAE connector will do the same thing so long as YOU REMEMBER TO DISCONNECT IT each time. I guarantee that you will forget one day and find a dead battery the next time you want to ride.

That is why I say wiring it to the canbus is idiot proof. Turn bike on, GPS comes on. Turn bike off, GPS shuts off. If you decide to leave the GPS on after the canbus has powered down, the only battery that will go flat in the event you forget, is the one in the GPS. Not the bike.

Wiring to the canbus is very easy with either a BMW pigtail or with a male powerlet socket or by soldering onto the female socket connectors under the fairing.

I used BMW part # 83300413585 which is a pigtail that plugs directly into the supplied canbus socket located in your battery compartment. Just attach the Garmin power cord to this pigtail and plug it in. So simple a caveman could do it!







Oh and FWIW, I think that all the Zumo's, BMW or otherwise are way overpriced for what you get. The Zumo's navigation capability is no better than a $100 nuvi. Who needs to talk on a cell phone while riding? If you like music, an ipod shuffle clipped to your collar is great. To be honest, the only thing I like about the Zumo is that it can provide audio directions to my helmet which is really handy when navigating through a city you are unfamiliar with and need to keep your eyes on the road at all times.

[notacop]

I have one of the original BMW navs. Clunker! The new ones are so much more svelte. A more bettah design. Unless you are 'Toothing' it and want to make /receive phone calls, listen to sounds while riding, I'd go with the least embellished device.
Some of the other GPS's can get a download app for BMW dealers. I did that on a TomTom 330XL. Downloaded the app for a zillion different things including the dealer network. Unplugging the unit when not needed is good advice....hello battery tender!

[danham]

Everything Pete O Static says is correct, especially for a Zumo.

So this is merely an alternate approach. If you choose to save a pile of money and get a nuvi instead of a Zumo, you can buy a water-resistant case for about $25 and get all of the Zumo benefits except dual bluetooth (as said above, I don't want to yak on my phone while riding anyway), and waterproofing, and the gas "gauge" mileage countdown.

My reasons for leaving the GPS powered at all times are: it draws next to nothing and when you unplug the nuvi, that drops to zero. When you stop to fuel, inevitably the CANbus delay plus built-in delay before the GPS displays the "do you want to turn off" message add up to having to let go of the pump handle and push a button -- if you remember. If you don't, or if you miss that window of opportunity, the GPS will then have to do a cold boot and re-acquire satellites, while your pals are riding off into the distance. It also begins a new track log when powered off, in case you care about "neatness" while reviewing your route later.

At any rate, this setup works for me and though I often need idiot-proofing, this is one case where I choose not to.

-dan

[montanaman]

So I did an about face and went all in for the Zumo 665. Took the BMW version back .Got a pretty good price on it and it comes with the mount and everything you need ... except of course for the easy male plug in for the dedicated power outlet already built in. So now comes the decision of how to wire it. Why not just go straight to the battery like the with the fuse protected bare wires? I dont understand why that is not the simplest and effective option? Obviously I want to protect the bike so if getting the 20 dollar pigtail is better I would do that.

I went for the 665 because it has the XM, bluetooth to pair to my phone and the Scala G4 that I got for the helmet. I think that having all that will come in handy and being able to listen to football game while taking a long ride... pretty cool IMHO

[danham]

Short answer: some have had problems leaving Zumo mounts connected all the time because they reportedly draw a small amount of current even with the Zumo un-mounted. I don't own a Zumo, but my son's has never done this on his Ducati or his Vespa, but that's hardly a scientific test.

As noted above, I dislike running a GPS via CANbus.

-dan

[Pete O Static]

+1 to what Dan just said. There are reports also that the XM Ant has flattened a battery or two in the past. Which ever way you decide to go, I think having a way to isolate the GPS from the bike's power supply is wise.

[montanaman]

so is getting the BMW "repair connector" and using the plug already there using the Can bus or not? Is that different to going right to the battery?. I know... Im not good at the electrical stuff. Althought I did get my new fastway pegs on myself yesterday

[Pete O Static]

If you use the spare connector located under the fairing and next to the battery, you will be hooking up to the canbus. Infact anything other than direct to the battery will be canbus controlled. If you wish to not utilize the canbus for automatic control and prefer a more manual control like Dan suggested, then you could simply wire direct to the battery utilizing an inline fuse provided in your Garmin wiring harness but add something like an "SAE connector" or some other sort of inline quick disconnect. ( in fact you only really need to put a quick disconnect on the "hot" or red wire. If you keep the inline fuse accessible, simply removing the fuse accomplishes the same task but I think would be a pain ) So after each ride, you would need to break the connection between the GPS and the bike. ( That is why I prefer canbus ) Another way you could go is to put a male powerlet plug on the end of the Garmin power cord and simply plug it in to the powerlet socket next to the ignition switch. By doing this however, you lose the use of the plug for something else like a heated vest and you are also creating redundancy because the canbus controls that socket anyway.

[montanaman]

i get it now.. thanks.... time to splice some wires...

[racsw]

I just happened to see this, but I have a nice solution if you haven't made up your mind yet.
I've got a BMW F650GS Twin 2009, and I just received, not an hour ago, what I need to attached my Garmin Nuvi 765 to the bike.
Did a lot of research beforehand, this seems to be the best solution. (IMO)
You only need two items:

From RAM mounts:

1 - RAM-HOL-AQ6U Med sized Aqua Box
1 - RAM-B-186-A-202U RAM MT MT M8 Handlebar base w/Round.

The Aqua Box provides a lockable, waterproof containment, while the flexible plastic outer membrane allows you to easily operate the Nuvi without opening it up.

This mount bolts to the handlebar mount, using one of the screws. It comes with three different length M8 bolts.
With this system, who needs a Zumo?

I'm going to use a Powerlet Canbus cable wired to the Garmin power cable for power.

Robert

[montanaman]

Thanks Robert ..

I did purchase and mount the Garmin Zumo 665.... A big investment and have not had a lot of miles to battle test it but so far so good. I ended up using a SAE connector ( extra one from my battery tender) soldered onto the garmin leads and connected to the bikes battery tender cable. So far so good. The XM is great to have and being able to navigate the many great roads in AZ with audio navigation is great. Pics and more to follow when the temps in the southwest get a bit warmer and drier

[stephen.stallebrass]

In my opinion, the cleanest and most idiot proof install is to wire it to the canbus. This provides several advantages. Fist of all, the cradle will only be powered when the canbus is powered. The canbus remains powered for 30 seconds after shutdown and when it does power down, the Zumo will ask if you wish to continue on its' internal battery. This is very handy for fuel stops. If you do not acknowledge the message, it will assume that you have shut off the bike and hopped off without turning off your GPS ( we have all done that! ) So, 30 seconds later, it shuts it off for you and isolates the GPS from the bike's system thereby protecting the bike's battery. The SAE connector will do the same thing so long as YOU REMEMBER TO DISCONNECT IT each time. I guarantee that you will forget one day and find a dead battery the next time you want to ride.

That is why I say wiring it to the canbus is idiot proof. Turn bike on, GPS comes on. Turn bike off, GPS shuts off. If you decide to leave the GPS on after the canbus has powered down, the only battery that will go flat in the event you forget, is the one in the GPS. Not the bike.

Wiring to the canbus is very easy with either a BMW pigtail or with a male powerlet socket or by soldering onto the female socket connectors under the fairing.

I used BMW part # 83300413585 which is a pigtail that plugs directly into the supplied canbus socket located in your battery compartment. Just attach the Garmin power cord to this pigtail and plug it in. So simple a caveman could do it!







Oh and FWIW, I think that all the Zumo's, BMW or otherwise are way overpriced for what you get. The Zumo's navigation capability is no better than a $100 nuvi. Who needs to talk on a cell phone while riding? If you like music, an ipod shuffle clipped to your collar is great. To be honest, the only thing I like about the Zumo is that it can provide audio directions to my helmet which is really handy when navigating through a city you are unfamiliar with and need to keep your eyes on the road at all times.

This is exactly how I plan to wire in my Zumo 660! Cheers for the info.

[hglass]

This is exactly how I plan to wire in my Zumo 660! Cheers for the info.

The way you describe works great if you don't use a BMW charger. If you do use the BMW charger you will run into a problem. The charger will fault because it sees an open circiut.
What I did (I use a BMW charger-Don't ask why I just do)was get my power from the light bulb in the front of the bike (next to the head light). This way there is no power until the ignition is turned on and when turning off the ignition the GPS will turn off in 30 seconds. It's a very clean way of installing a GPS. Also you don't have to buy the adapter cable.

[Yoda]

I bought a shiny new Zumo 660 to fit on my shiny new 800GT. I have connected it to the CAN bus socket but there is no doubt that the cradle draws power continuously. I use a BMW charger which never goes to the "green" LED maintenance mode with the Zumo cradle connected, it stays on the 2/3 yellow LED, but does go green when the cradle is disconnected.

What a pain, I wish I'd kept my 550 or splashed out the extra on a Navigator IV


BUT - see post below

[Yoda]

I've looked into this a bit more. When the CAN bus is "active", i.e. either the ignition is on OR the BMW charger is plugged into the accessory socket, then the Zumo cradle on its own draws a very small current of 0.075mA.
If activated only by turning on the ignition, then turning the ignition off results in a CAN bus shutdown after the 30 sec - 1 min (I didn't bother to time it) and the cradle then draws ZERO current.
HOWEVER, if the CAN bus has been activated by plugging in the BMW Charger, then even when the charger is unplugged it appears that the 0.075mA drawn by the cradle is sufficient to keep the CAN bus active and it never shuts down - and it is presumably all the other circuits which subsequently drain the battery since 0.075mA would otherwise be insignificant.
Whatever the current drain is it appears that it is also enough to prevent the BMW charger going to "green" maintenance mode and it stays at "2/3".
So the upshot is that with a Zumo 660 I can't use the BMW charger in the way that it was meant to be used.
Fortunately I have an Optimate lead connected directly to the battery so I can use that, but I have a redundant charger worth £90

[mattyguzzi]

Just spotted this thread... I'm buying an F800GSA later this year and have been thinking about GPS installation. I'm probably going to get a Garmin 390LM and I believe SW Motech do an over the clocks mount.

Now, am I right in thinking that I can get something like this, connect the Garmin power cable to that, then there is some kind of plug near the battery that I can plug it into? I'm new to BMWs so this whole canbus thing is a new one on me.

If that is correct, does anyone know how easy it is to route a cable neatly from an above the clocks mount back to this canbus plug on the F800GSA? I'm not particularly good with the wielding of spanners and suchlike, so if it requires removing huge amounts of the fairing/fascia or anything like that, I will probably end up wimping out and paying someone who knows what they're doing to fit it for me.

Thanks for your help!

[drduct]

Do you have a pic of the final connections ???? I wish to do this also

In my opinion, the cleanest and most idiot proof install is to wire it to the canbus. This provides several advantages. Fist of all, the cradle will only be powered when the canbus is powered. The canbus remains powered for 30 seconds after shutdown and when it does power down, the Zumo will ask if you wish to continue on its' internal battery. This is very handy for fuel stops. If you do not acknowledge the message, it will assume that you have shut off the bike and hopped off without turning off your GPS ( we have all done that! ) So, 30 seconds later, it shuts it off for you and isolates the GPS from the bike's system thereby protecting the bike's battery. The SAE connector will do the same thing so long as YOU REMEMBER TO DISCONNECT IT each time. I guarantee that you will forget one day and find a dead battery the next time you want to ride.

That is why I say wiring it to the canbus is idiot proof. Turn bike on, GPS comes on. Turn bike off, GPS shuts off. If you decide to leave the GPS on after the canbus has powered down, the only battery that will go flat in the event you forget, is the one in the GPS. Not the bike.

Wiring to the canbus is very easy with either a BMW pigtail or with a male powerlet socket or by soldering onto the female socket connectors under the fairing.

I used BMW part # 83300413585 which is a pigtail that plugs directly into the supplied canbus socket located in your battery compartment. Just attach the Garmin power cord to this pigtail and plug it in. So simple a caveman could do it!







Oh and FWIW, I think that all the Zumo's, BMW or otherwise are way overpriced for what you get. The Zumo's navigation capability is no better than a $100 nuvi. Who needs to talk on a cell phone while riding? If you like music, an ipod shuffle clipped to your collar is great. To be honest, the only thing I like about the Zumo is that it can provide audio directions to my helmet which is really handy when navigating through a city you are unfamiliar with and need to keep your eyes on the road at all times.

[ADVer]

Just spotted this thread... I'm buying an F800GSA later this year and have been thinking about GPS installation. I'm probably going to get a Garmin 390LM and I believe SW Motech do an over the clocks mount.

Now, am I right in thinking that I can get something like this, connect the Garmin power cable to that, then there is some kind of plug near the battery that I can plug it into? I'm new to BMWs so this whole canbus thing is a new one on me.

If that is correct, does anyone know how easy it is to route a cable neatly from an above the clocks mount back to this canbus plug on the F800GSA? I'm not particularly good with the wielding of spanners and suchlike, so if it requires removing huge amounts of the fairing/fascia or anything like that, I will probably end up wimping out and paying someone who knows what they're doing to fit it for me.

Thanks for your help!

That is the way to go. Get the BMW pigtail that is listed in the post below yours ( the TT one you linked May fit too dunno) and connect it to the connector located on top of your battery.
The routing and install are a piece of cake. You can definitely do it yourself.
Here are pictures from a thread on this very section on how to locate the connector.

http://https://f800riders.org/forum/showthread.php/137946-How-to-plug-on-the-BMW-Navigator-IV-mount-cradle-on-my-F800GS?p=1022874&viewfull=1#post1022874

[whitecho]

I just ordered a Nuvi instead of a Zumo and thinking to mount it on my F800R. Question is ... how do I connect the power by using the part you mentioned ? (83300413585). I can see one is going to the CANbus connector, but what those 3 wires ? Do I cut the power cable that c/w the GPS and connect them to those 3 wires?

Thanks

[ADVer]

I just ordered a Nuvi instead of a Zumo and thinking to mount it on my F800R. Question is ... how do I connect the power by using the part you mentioned ? (83300413585). I can see one is going to the CANbus connector, but what those 3 wires ? Do I cut the power cable that c/w the GPS and connect them to those 3 wires?

Thanks

I guess you could or save the power cord for the car and pick up one of these and either hard wire directly to battery or through the BMW canbus connector. Kinda bulky though.

http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Hardwir.../dp/B001ISXXY8

http://www.sears.com/garmin-usa-inc-...irectType=SRDT

[whitecho]

I guess you could or save the power cord for the car and pick up one of these and either hard wire directly to battery or through the BMW canbus connector. Kinda bulky though.

http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Hardwir.../dp/B001ISXXY8

http://www.sears.com/garmin-usa-inc-...irectType=SRDT

Thanks ADVer.

Based on what you suggested, I found this one which is less bulky. Hopefully the angled USB plug won't have any issue with my RAM bracket.

http://www.gpscity.ca/garmin-usb-power-cable.html

[ADVer]

Yes that's looks like a much better solution.

[tweak89]

I just picked up the Garmin Montana 600 for my F800GT. This is essentially what BMW calls the "Adventure" Navigation unit. I had been using (and still do on my Victory) Garmin Nuvi 550's on my bikes. I got the GPS, powered cradle and techmount bar mount for a bit over $400 less than just the unit from BMW. Should have it installed this weekend.

Cradle:


Mount:


Montana 600:

[michelsmith]

I use a Garmin Zumo 660 and have it mounted on this GPS mount: http://www.motorcycleparts-hornig.co...-Mounting.html

[SABSMAN]

Hi Guys

This is a pretty old thread, but it seems like there are a lot of knowledagble people on here to help me out as my problem is relevant to the thread.

I have a Garmin 660 Zumo GPS and the standard cradle for it that was provided with the purchase. It is a great little unit and so easy to work with. I did buy myself a 2013 R1200GS that come with the Motorrad Navigation system and cradle. Since the bike is in a different country, I havent had the oppurtunity to check the cradle compatibility. Are you guys aware if it will be possible to use the Zumo in the BMW Motorrad V cradle?

[ADVer]

Hi Guys

This is a pretty old thread, but it seems like there are a lot of knowledagble people on here to help me out as my problem is relevant to the thread.

I have a Garmin 660 Zumo GPS and the standard cradle for it that was provided with the purchase. It is a great little unit and so easy to work with. I did buy myself a 2013 R1200GS that come with the Motorrad Navigation system and cradle. Since the bike is in a different country, I havent had the oppurtunity to check the cradle compatibility. Are you guys aware if it will be possible to use the Zumo in the BMW Motorrad V cradle?

Zumo 660 is equivalent to the Nav IV but I believe the Nav IV and V cradles are similar and compatible. I believe the cradle should fit, hold and provide power to your Zumo 660. I don't know if the BMW cradle side buttons would control the 660 as they would a NavIV/V but you wouldn't really need them - your touch screen would work as usual.