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  1. #1
    Richard230's Avatar
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    Here is an interesting and entertaining article. Last summer Car and Driver magazine took 11 EV cars and went on a 1000-mile trip across four states to check how feasible it was to travel long distances quickly with the current state of electric cars and charging stations available. Here is a link to the article, which contains a YouTube video should you rather watch the trip instead of reading about it (or you could do both). Guess which brand wins the "race":
    https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...distance-race/
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    Here's the bottom line...almost literally.
    Our drivers are split when asked whether the EV 1000 was harder or easier than expected, but most say that if they were to do the trip again, they would do one thing differently: drive a gas car. And that includes the Tesla drivers.
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    C&D spin conveniently forgets the miracle the EVs could do the trip at all.

    And the Tesla Model S took only 50 minutes longer than Google Map estimate over 1000 miles, nearly 17 hours.
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    When affordable, capable of pulling our small caravan, and not take much more time for our 300 mile haul with adequate and working charging point network - with at least one to allow caravan outfits to recharge without having t0 drop the 'van, I'd be interested.... but I'm 84 in a months time so don't expect to ever own one!

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    I don't do a 'race' with mine but on the longer trips that I have done (375 mile each way) the difference between when I did it in an ICE vehicle was minimal. Maybe 20 minutes more on a 7 hour trip? I rationalize that against the time I don't spend any longer sitting at the gas pump each week.


    Yes, the routes can be more restrictive to stay near major highways and I know parts of the country have fewer charge options - but that will improve quickly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev Ken View Post
    When affordable, capable of pulling our small caravan, and not take much more time for our 300 mile haul with adequate and working charging point network - with at least one to allow caravan outfits to recharge without having t0 drop the 'van, I'd be interested.... but I'm 84 in a months time so don't expect to ever own one!
    How about a small electric caravan that can pull itself around and doesn't need to be towed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMeteor View Post
    ...Yes, the routes can be more restrictive to stay near major highways and I know parts of the country have fewer charge options - but that will improve quickly.
    Hmmm..."that will improve quickly." I guess that depends on your definition of "quick". I wonder how long till they have charging stations in Almena, KS?
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    I personally think an electric would be a pain in the ass for longer trips away from home,,.

    Standing in the gas station on Christmas Day at minus 10 degrees grimacing at how slow the pump was, I thought how lucky I was not to be driving an electric,,.
    On the other hand if I had an electric, I would have most certainly left home that day with a full charge and wouldn't have required stopping at all,,.

    EV's just don't make sense for me, as a retired person whom puts more miles on the bikes then my 4 wheelers it just doesn't work to pay a premium up front for fuel,,. I might make an exception for a Porsche Taycan, but then again,,,,,,,, when has a Porsche ever been a practical choice?

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    Something else to consider: the EV has no concern with running the HVAC when charging. Sit warm in the car charging at -10°.

    Also all seem to have connectivity making it easy to watch charge progress in the coffee shop or restaurant.

    When my Tesla was new my traditional twice-annual trip of 500 miles each way took 3 stops of 30 minutes each. Several years ago an over the air firmware update tapered the charge rate much faster resulting in increasing the charge time to 1 hour three times, total 3 hours charge for 8 hours driving. Last couple years the Tesla stayed home in favor of my ICE vehicles. Even with an ICE I stop at least twice for 10-15 minutes. Arrive better rested when I do.
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    I'd argue that currently most EV's are at a good level of range/re-charge time, although not suitable for all still. The biggest let down/area of catch up is the charging infrastructure.

    On my commute to work, which is only 20 miles each way i drive past 0 charging station areas. At my work place (its not a new office) there are only 2 chargers/4 ports - for an office of 300 people.

    If i had to charge on the way to/from the office i would need to divert to the Motorway services - which would add on circa 20 miles of driving (time) + charging time.

    In comparison, i drive past 4 petrol stations - and its not as if ICE cars have a small range . . . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ123 View Post
    I'd argue that currently most EV's are at a good level of range/re-charge time, although not suitable for all still. The biggest let down/area of catch up is the charging infrastructure.

    On my commute to work, which is only 20 miles each way i drive past 0 charging station areas. At my work place (its not a new office) there are only 2 chargers/4 ports - for an office of 300 people.

    If i had to charge on the way to/from the office i would need to divert to the Motorway services - which would add on circa 20 miles of driving (time) + charging time.

    In comparison, i drive past 4 petrol stations - and its not as if ICE cars have a small range . . . .
    Why would you “need to charge” in only 20 miles? Or 40 round trip?

    The reason you sometimes buy “petrol” is that you can’t fill the tank at home.

    A power hog pig Tesla Model S 85 charges 3-4 miles per hour on a common 120VAC 15A outlet. 12 hours overnight will meet your 40 mile usage. Home power rates are usually less than half Tesla Supercharger cost and about 1/4 of Electrify America’s pricing. Why would anyone not charge at home?

    Those who continually harp on “charging infrastructure” do not drive EVs and have zero experience in what they are talking about.

    The Model 3 consumes 2/3rds the power per mile of a Model S.

    Riddle me this: what about the National Smartphone Charging Network? What if you needed to charge your phone on the way to work? Would you plug into your own cigarette lighter outlet, AC outlet at home or work, or would you demand a “gas station, else smartphones are not yet viable”?
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    Quote Originally Posted by N4HHE View Post
    Why would you “need to charge” in only 20 miles? Or 40 round trip?

    The reason you sometimes buy “petrol” is that you can’t fill the tank at home.

    A power hog pig Tesla Model S 85 charges 3-4 miles per hour on a common 120VAC 15A outlet. 12 hours overnight will meet your 40 mile usage. Home power rates are usually less than half Tesla Supercharger cost and about 1/4 of Electrify America’s pricing. Why would anyone not charge at home?

    Those who continually harp on “charging infrastructure” do not drive EVs and have zero experience in what they are talking about.

    The Model 3 consumes 2/3rds the power per mile of a Model S.

    Riddle me this: what about the National Smartphone Charging Network? What if you needed to charge your phone on the way to work? Would you plug into your own cigarette lighter outlet, AC outlet at home or work, or would you demand a “gas station, else smartphones are not yet viable”?
    After 3/4 days of commuting a charge would be needed.

    Many residents in the UK (and i suspect in other countries too) do not have driveways/road access from house to car to charge at home. Charging on the road/away from would be the only option for many people.

    I have experience of driving an ICE vehicle and know what the EV needs to do to replace it - currently it can't. Hence why i do not own one, and nor will until it is able to do the same job, in the same way.

    Not sure how you think a smartphone is the same as a car? But thankfully i can charge it in my ICE powered vehicle as it produces its own energy free of charge, with no detriment to the range. Which is what i do on my long journeys where it is being used for navigation.
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    Having worked in the Automotive sector for a good part of my working life, I'm totally for EV and I'm glad that, in the UK at least, it's progressing well.

    DJ123 has a very good point in that a significant proportion of the UK housing stock has no off street parking. e.g. Victorian era houses were built that way as ICE vehicles didn't exist at that point in time.

    For this reason, the home charging model is not practical for all who will then have to rely on alternative means of charging. e.g. no different to the current setup with ICE with sourcing fuel.

    Ride safety

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    The lack of charging in urban settings and apartment/condo settings is an issue in the US as well. I think renters will start to demand that condos and apartments offer charging options. The urban / street parking is a harder one to solve but we will see access to charging rapidly improve in a relatively short term and then need to solve the rest.

    David's point about the many that knock EV infrastructure is oftentimes valid. I have had many folks criticize EVs that do not understand that the gas station concept is not a parallel. Many folks can indeed charge at home and be fully charged each evening. They only need to charge on longer road trips. Charge infrastructure is better placed at areas where an EV owner would spend 30 minutes, doing things regardless, such as a grocery store, restaurant, gym/fitness center, shopping center, park.
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  20. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ123 View Post
    After 3/4 days of commuting a charge would be needed.
    Further evidence you do not have a clue. You continue to believe The Gas Station Model is the One True Way that everything must follow.

    One does not charge an EV “every 3-4 days”. One charges a little each night that one starts the next day with everything needed.

    A lithium battery wears the least when it is kept near 50%. The generally accepted strategy for maximum life is to charge to 80% but for when one knows the next day will require more. To charge every night. At night when the power grid has 50% surplus generating capacity.

    Unlike the 10 minute gas stop, an EV takes 15 seconds to attach the umbilical at night, 15 seconds to detach in the morning.

    Many residents in the UK (and i suspect in other countries too) do not have driveways/road access from house to car to charge at home. Charging on the road/away from would be the only option for many people.
    Well! That just totally rules out EV! You win!

    But I bet those same people also lack clothes washers and dryers. Clearly a National Program is required to build laundromats on every street corner for these people to have something to do when charging their EV every 3-4 days, else the wearing of clothes will never be viable.

    I have experience of driving an ICE vehicle and know what the EV needs to do to replace it - currently it can't. Hence why i do not own one, and nor will until it is able to do the same job, in the same way.
    Yup, that is what I have been saying. That you lack the imagination to understand how anything could be done different than you have always done it. How could anyone tie shoe laces left-over-right when everyone knows right-over-left is The One True Way? Or as Doctor Seuss would say, butter the wrong side of one’s bread. You simply must have gas stations!

    Not sure how you think a smartphone is the same as a car? But thankfully i can charge it in my ICE powered vehicle as it produces its own energy free of charge, with no detriment to the range. Which is what i do on my long journeys where it is being used for navigation.
    Lack of imagination. You do not drop everything to charge your phone, you plug it in at night, you unplug in the morning, just like an EV. Unlike the gasoline automobile you do not drop everything until the gas tank is full. With gasoline you do nothing but watch until the tank is full, just like our clueless VP who “filled” an EV at a public charging station last week. Never took her hand off the handle.
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    I think it would be great if we could make our own choices, whether it be an ICE or EV car. But I suspect people who don't even drive a car will pass so many restrictions that we'll have no choice.

    Chris
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    I think it would be great if we could make our own choices, whether it be an ICE or EV car. But I suspect people who don't even drive a car will pass so many restrictions that we'll have no choice.

    Chris
    Well, many governments are certainly on the EV bandwagon as a way to limit global warming. What I am waiting for is for government presidents, prime ministers, governors and other high-ranking officials to start driving EVs of their own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by N4HHE View Post
    ...

    bet those same people also lack clothes washers and dryers. Clearly a National Program is required to build laundromats on every street corner for these people to have something to do when charging their EV every 3-4 days, else the wearing of clothes will never be viable.
    Looks like evidence that you don't understand the UK housing market. Some of the Georgian, Victorian and Edwardian houses in both large cities and regional towns are multi million homes and not hovels. They simply don't have off street parking. (Check out some of the online real estate sites.)

    Good luck with your laundromat investment plans but I'm struggling to see it's relevance to charging an EV overnight at home for some in the UK.

    Ride safety.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    Well, many governments are certainly on the EV bandwagon as a way to limit global warming. What I am waiting for is for government presidents, prime ministers, governors and other high-ranking officials to start driving EVs of their own.
    I see something like this happening in so many different ways. Non-elected officials creating policies that the populace wouldn't necessarily accept for themselves.

    For instance, there's a road that I used to take that goes by a lake with some expensive homes. The speed limit is 25 mph, and I'll agree that people used to go through there much too fast. So the county put in speed bumps. Not two or three, but about eight. No sooner do you get over one, when you're at the next. Don't try to negotiate this with an open cup of coffee! So the speed limit is still officially 25 mph...but most cars are only going about 10 mph. What they did is to lower the speed limit, but there was no meetings to discuss the change to the local roads for anyone to comment on it. By installing that many speed bumps, they bypassed any process that would've given people a say in the change.

    Another case is the local "Swift" buses. The operate over the same bus routes as the older buses. The older buses have cutouts in the road where they can pull over and allow traffic to go by while they load and unload passengers. The "Swift" buses do not. They stop right in the road with traffic backing up behind them. Generally right after a traffic light, so the cars behind them get caught by the light by the time they are moving again. If you asked the non-elected officials what was the reason for placing the Swift bus stops like they did, they'd mention something like cost, etc. When in their minds, they wanted to make driving a car so infuriating that you take the bus.

    Chris
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    Daboo i agree with most of what you say, but..
    You drink coffee when you are driving/riding?
    Oh yeah, Starbucks’s headquarters is in Seattle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxerBits View Post
    Looks like evidence that you don't understand the UK housing market. Some of the Georgian, Victorian and Edwardian houses in both large cities and regional towns are multi million homes and not hovels. They simply don't have off street parking. (Check out some of the online real estate sites.)
    Seems like you didn't understand a thing I have written.

    Your "multi million homes" were not built with washer and dryer hookups either. Got added when the owners decided they wanted. You are pretending that if everyone can not trivially accomodate an EV then nobody should.

    I saw what James May (formerly of "Top Gear") built in London. If one desires a garage, one gets a garage. Government does not owe you a garage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by N4HHE View Post
    Seems like you didn't understand a thing I have written.
    ...
    Yes I agree, I've not a clue what your point is.

    We look to both agree on the need for progress with EV but, you appear to be fixated that nobody else knows as much as yourself on the subject and the reality of property ownership and living in the UK.

    I wish you well with the argument that you appear to be having with yourself.


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    Quote Originally Posted by scf View Post
    Daboo i agree with most of what you say, but..
    You drink coffee when you are driving/riding?
    Oh yeah, Starbucks’s headquarters is in Seattle.
    Actually, I was hoping people would remember the days when you tried to hold an open cup of hot coffee while they drove down the road...in the days of the last century when roads were smoother and speed bumps were found in grocery store parking lots.

    I would love to see the gov't back out of these things and let the consumers make the choices. If EV is the way to go, people will flock to it. If they don't like ICE vehicles, let them decide at the dealerships. But to force those decisions by closing down gas pipelines and changing us from a net exporter of oil, to an importer by the stroke of a pen, is not the way to do it.

    Part of what I don't like regarding the gov't interference is the subsidies of the electric vehicles. How much do Tesla buyers get in tax incentives? $10,000? The people buying a Tesla can easily afford the full price, or even more. Yet, the people paying for that tax incentive are those who can't afford a Tesla...the rest of the buying public.

    I thought the line I quoted in post #2 was telling. Even those driving the Teslas in that article would prefer an ICE vehicle to make the trip the next time.

    I could see owning a Nissan Leaf if I only commuted, but I use a vehicle for far more.

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    The government subsidy for buying an EV disappoints me. It is in the form of an income tax break. Since I pay almost no income tax, there is no way I can take advantage of the subsidy if I were to buy an EV. Guess I'll just keep driving my ICE car. Sold my gas guzzler '72 Chevy pickup truck several weeks ago. Got about 4 times what I paid for it back in '84.

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    I think it has been quite a while since Tesla buyers received a rebate or tax credit. Once they sold over a certain number of vehicles, I think it was 250K, the financial incentives went away. I believe that is also true for the Chevy Bolt. It sold so well that government rebates were no longer needed.
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    In a not unsurprising development, Ford is developing an EV police cruiser concept based upon their Mach E electric car. This has generated a funny reply on the Royal Enfield forum, where long-stroke, 500cc single cylinder motorcycles are seen as the ultimate development of motorcycle technology.

    Shocking! If you get stopped a second time, do you get recharged? If you bump into the Police EV, is that a case of battery? If the cops are non-binary, does that make it an AC/DC cruiser? Enquiring minds need to know...
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    EV’s like my VW ID 4 are fun to drive but you do have to adapt to them. The charging on the road takes 38 minutes (though an update is coming in March to shorten that to 29 minutes) but sometimes the individual chargers run slow. I did make mine adapt to me, however, and now it is my new “gas for free for 3 years” expedition vehicle with the addition of a roof top tent from Bad Ass tents built in Poway CA.
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    So divide Germany into Commies and Patriots too just like America? Great Russian propaganda there. Not! Patton was right about the Russian government.
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    I have read that some police departments have the Model Y with great results with regards to cost of operation. Much lower maintenance.
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    Less moving parts on any electric car so that should always be true. But high speed chases had better not be county to county as the batteries will drain quickly at speed.
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    A Model Y or 3 has 300-plus miles range on a standard loop. Even at speed, the consumption does not drop so much so as eliminate the possiblity of a chase from county to county. How many chases go on for 100-miles plus? If they do, you can be assured there are multiple vehicles and agencies involved. Not just one.
    Last edited by TheMeteor; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:43 PM.
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    Furthermore Tesla sells the most aerodynamic cars available. 100 MPH will affect energy consumption less than a Ford Explorer Police Interceptor.
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    Car and Driver says they are getting 230
    miles per tank over 30,000 miles in the Type 3 and other people say low 200's but we all know real world driving is different than the manufacturer or government tests. I actually got 287 miles with my VW the first tank but since I see in the middle 200's, usually under 250.
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    That was not the Long Range model Model Y but the Standard edition. Most tests of the Long Range get 300+ of real world driving. Of course, if one drives agressively or it is very cold out, YMMV.

    Last summer, I drove my Model Y from CNJ to Binghamptom, NY before stopping for my first charge and had, IIRC around 32% charge left. That is 170-175 Miles and about 3 hours of driving. I was ready to stop and stretch my leg to charge and grab a coffee. And I do tend to drive a bit over the speed limit.

    The reality is that I was surprised how little time I lost on a 375 mile one-way trip. I have done the same trip multitudes of times in my previous ICE vehicles. Granted, the route I took had lots of choices in NY state to charge. I know other parts of the country require more planning and stretching. Even the areas of PA that I drove through get sparce on Superchargers in areas if you get off main roads. But that is improving quickly as many sites have gone live over the last year or under construction this year.
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    Nice to get that standard ICE range on your EV. If that drive is flat then I am sure I could get 300 miles in the ID.4 the way you describe it. Out here in Socal the freeways have tons of Teslas doing 60 or 65 mph with a lesser amount going faster. But sometimes all the traffic lanes are full of traffic moving 80-85-90 mph. Seems unwise to drive efficiency speeds in that situation but the slow lane has actually become safer as the people driving to crash are usually swerving between the fast and the middle lanes. Lots of wrong way drivers now too and they are easiest to dodge in the slow lane.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighning View Post
    Car and Driver says they are getting 230
    miles per tank over 30,000 miles in the Type 3 and other people say low 200's but we all know real world driving is different than the manufacturer or government tests. I actually got 287 miles with my VW the first tank but since I see in the middle 200's, usually under 250.
    I know it is hard to believe that ICE things don't extend to EV things, but the EPA consumption ratings for EVs is very reasonable and reproducible.
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    Name:  Opera.png
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    Too funny!
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    A little less funny, but interesting from a different POV. You can debate whether the authors' numbers are correct, but the general assumptions made are worth looking at.

    The Electric Vehicle Scam
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    It has an interesting narrative. All untrue, but interesting just the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    A little less funny, but interesting from a different POV. You can debate whether the authors' numbers are correct, but the general assumptions made are worth looking at.

    The Electric Vehicle Scam
    The author takes every false narrative and runs with it.

    I have said before and will say again, "The gas station model does not apply to EVs." This guy perpetuates the ignorance in insisting an EV charging station must serve 2000 vehicles per day. Buc-ees might. My nearest has 120 pump stations.

    Doesn't bother to research what it takes to charge a Tesla, a mere mention somewhere that a Tesla could use a 72A 240V home connector (not "charger", he can't be bothered to know the difference) he makes another wild-ass claim, "The average house is equipped with 100-amp service." In his ignorance has not bothered to know to draw 72A at 100% duty cycle requires 90A of that "100-amp service." Cottages in temperate California climates may get away with 100A service but poverty shacks in most of the rest of the country start at 200A. Most new homes around here get 400A to run the heat pumps.

    Perpetuates the myth of "minerals only mined in China". That is totally arbitrary decision foisted on us by globalist politicians. We used to supply the world until someone decided to give that business to China.

    "The average used EV will need a new battery before an owner can sell it..." clueless. Thinks EV traction batteries are designed and built like cheap commodity car starter batteries. Or abused like cellphone batteries.

    The spin is so forced in that article one must believe it deliberate.
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    Lots of misinformation. Not to mention the claim that EVs will never be more than 10% of the market. It already meets or exceeds that in many parts of the world, but don't let facts get in the way of good story.

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/...centage-sales/

    https://cleantechnica.com/2021/06/27...s%20follows%3A
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMeteor View Post
    Lots of misinformation. Not to mention the claim that EVs will never be more than 10% of the market. It already meets or exceeds that in many parts of the world, but don't let facts get in the way of good story.

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/...centage-sales/

    https://cleantechnica.com/2021/06/27...s%20follows%3A
    I was never intending the link to be an attempt to win a debate or argument. Can we simply discuss things without having to "win"?

    While Norway’s policy measures (e.g. tax exemptions, toll exemptions and other incentives) did prove highly effective in promoting electric cars, the Norwegian model cannot be easily transferred to other countries. First and foremost, the country imposes hefty vehicle import duties and car registration taxes, making cars significantly more expensive than say in the United States. By waiving these duties for electric vehicles, Norway is effectively subsidizing EV purchases at a level that a larger country such as the U.S. couldn’t afford. Secondly, Norway is a very wealthy country (ironically thanks to its oil reserves) with a high level of income.
    I think I read a year or so ago about Tesla? imports in Europe and they mentioned the sales took a dive once the import duty exemption was taken away. I'm sure it was Tesla, but I don't remember which country.

    I think the article did raise a couple points that are worth considering. One that comes to mind is the electrical power grid. California is the state pushing the EV idea the most...but they can't provide for the current electrical demands. Now replace all the cars on the road with EV cars. Sure, they'll build a better power grid...but really? (How's that hydrogen road doing, Richard? ) For the past several years, it seems like rolling brown-outs are the norm during the summer months. So you have to get to work...and you find they shut your power off and your EV car can't get you there. Or your wife's about to deliver a baby...and you have no juice.

    My first mission trip was to Tanzania, to a region around Mwanza. It had over a million people living there. The electrical grid was interesting. You didn't know if you'd wake up to have lights and power...or come home to have lights and power at the end of a long day. My concern back then was to charge my cell phone so I had an alarm to wake up by. Imagine if EV cars were all that was allowed.

    I don't buy all that politicians say. And it seems like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. One unelected bureaucrat will declare you can't sell anything except EV cars...and another unelected bureaucrat will be wringing his hands having no idea how to provide the electricity for today, let alone for any additional demands.

    Chris
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    I live in California and the last rolling brown outs I have experienced here were in the 1990's when Enron of Texas was ripping us off. Now they shut the power off here out in the country trying to prevent high winds from leading to wilfdfires during the increasing droughts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighning View Post
    I live in California and the last rolling brown outs I have experienced here were in the 1990's when Enron of Texas was ripping us off. Now they shut the power off here out in the country trying to prevent high winds from leading to wilfdfires during the increasing droughts.
    Enron convinced the Kalifornia Czars that they could create "managed competition" and not have to build new power plants. The Kalifornia Public Services Commission (or whatever the czars are called there) forced utilities to sell facilities to Enron's favored investors for prices below the cost of outstanding bonds issued to build the facility, at a loss to the original utility. Then these "independent" facilities were to be unregulated, allowing them to sell power at "market prices", which Enron had convinced the Czars would be lower than current costs.

    Shortages ensued because new plants were not allowed to be built to meet demand. The newly "independent" generators set sky-high prices during high demand which in a free market would have opportunists building new generating facilities but those were denied. The utility delivering power to homes and businesses was not allowed to raise rates to pay for the high demand power so they had no other choice than to enact rolling blackouts to distribute what power they could afford to buy from providers.

    The same idiots convinced Texas to do much the same. Only this time, "improved, with windmills!" This time with T.O.U. rates and "competitive" end providers many found rates going through he sky.
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    https://amp.theguardian.com/business...5/enron.usnews

    The facts are plain to see that Enron stole $1.7 billion from Californians. But that is nothing compared to what Texans allowed their own utilitity companies to do to them when most of their natural gas plants froze last year due to lack of regulations. 246 Texans RIP
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    I heard a CBS national news report this morning that in Europe electric vehicles are now outselling diesel cars each year and have now reached 20% of the new car market. ICE vehicles still have 40% of new car sales.
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    I never even contemplated buying an EV until I started a new commute and my monthly gas bill hit $300. Now whenever I see a really nice new gasoline powered vehicle I think, "Why would they buy that dinosaur?" Even a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited was charging next to me awhile back.

    The times they are a changin'....
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    I have kept my last two cars just over 10 years each. As I toyed with the idea of an EV and whether it could fit in my work use, I found the range really would not be an issue. My heart was with the Alfa Stelvio TI Sport and head was with the Acura RDX. However, I started to think where we will be 10 years from now and the market trend was too strong. I decided, ICE resale values will be lower if I were to look to change in 5 years - or even longer. With the rebates our state had at the time, in addition to no sales tax, the economics started to make a lot of sense.

    Those rebates now are much lower and more limited, so my timing wound up being very fortunate. And I am not disappointed at all. Though I still have a lust for the Stelvio and Giulia.

    Edit: just read this before bed and thought I would add. Audi eTron proved a pretty good test bed at Dakar as well;

    Rivals Fear Audi's Hybrid Dakar Racer Is Too Fast To Keep Up With | Carscoops
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    When the Toyota Prius first came out, it was really tempting. But then one night, I did some calculations. Toyota also made the Echo. The Echo was a stripped down car, and purposely (I believe) made to look less appealing to the buyer than the more expensive Prius. The Prius got phenomenal gas mileage for the day...but the Echo was no slouch itself. I figured with an average of 15,000 miles a year and the cost of fuel at the time that it would take me about 12 years at least to break even on the initial higher premium to buy the Prius. It taught me a lesson that night, that the competition to a product isn't always what we think it might be.

    An example of that is the airplane industry. You know that the two biggest giants in the aircraft industry are Boeing and Airbus. But did you realize the third major area for airplane sales is the used airplane market. There are hundreds upon hundreds sitting parked out in the desert waiting to be put back in commission again.


    I've been looking at a new Subaru Outback for a couple years. There's nothing wrong with my 2005 XT. And the car sits parked in the driveway most of the time. But one thing holding me back, is the thought that I'd get a new Outback XT for about 45-50K and have the gov't tell me a couple years later that it has to be scrapped in a couple years. So I'll sit back and enjoy the grin I get on my face every time the turbo kicks in (which seems to be often for some reason) and keep my money in the bank.

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